Posts to Journey to Nibbana Yahoo Group (second)

Dear Hasituppada,

Could you please check rupa and object?

Htoo Naing

P.S: Below include some replies.
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--- In JourneyToNibbana@yahoogroups.com, "hasituppada"
wrote:

Mind is the sixth sense door. Every sense door "takes in" objects.
Therefore the Mind door also takes in objects (arammanas). What are
the objects of the mind door. They are the arising and falling away
thoughts.

In this case the thoughts are the rupa and knowing the presense of a
thought is the nama.
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Htoo:

Thoughts are objects but not rupa.
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You may ofcourse experience a rupa ( a thought), by getting attached
to it or having an aversion towards it. That will be "thinking"
about the thougt. A thought too has all
the elemnts of a though arising in contact with an external object
by another sense door like the eye.

First knowing of the arising thought is the passa(( phassa ? )),
liking or disliking it is the vedana(( not exactly )).Knowing
the connection with what the thought has arisen is the sanna.
Knowing the thought is the vinnana and then it becomes a part of the
sankaras.

If you pay bare attention (without thinking)of the thought it will
pass way. An experience in meditation comes about when there are not
thoughts, and the mind is silent.

It may be the thinking about thoughts that may cause confusion. Let
a thought arise and pass away, and just be aware of it.

That is how I see it.

with metta,
Hasituppada

Sensing Dhamma as they Really are ( reply to torloff87048-26 March,2004)

Dear Hasituppada,

I appreciate what you are saying here. I understood your post on
thoughts as mind-objects was about experience, not intellectual
learning or reasoning. Because you wrote in response to my problems
with thoughts in meditation, I was ready to hear what you had to
say. This turned out very fruitful for me- I heard your meaning and
experienced it for myself (just a little bit, but enough to realize
the importance of it.) Your language was well-suited to helping me
and there was no confusion about it for me. It can be nice to go
back and express things in correct Abhidhamma language, but that has
nothing to do with the help you gave me. I hope you will continue to
share your experiences like this. If I have an intellectual question
about the Dhamma there are many people who can help me answer it. To
me that is "good Dhamma." But there are not many people like
yourself who have penetrated the Dhamma in experience and who will
share it to help others get there too. To me that is "best Dhamma."


With Metta,

Toby

It is good to understand every aspect of thoughts and nama and
rupa. I read often Nina's writings which are a store house of
information. All that I know of Abhidhamma is what I have gathered
from Nina's writings. I do not STUDY Visuddhimagga and all suttas
in details.

For my purpose of meditation intellectualisation of Dhamma is
inessenstial. Meditation develops wisdom and the dhamma will be
REALISED rather than understood.

If the Mind is a sense door what does it sense ? For me it senses
thoughts that is all that is to it.

with metta,
Hasituppada (Charles )